'Have you heard about this UFC fighter who robbed a bank?'
Meet the creator of the year's best podcast...
Good morning and happy Monday! Here’s something I’ve been chasing for a while, an interview with the podcaster behind the best thing I’ve heard all year: a story about MMA-fighter-turned-bank-robber Lee Murray. It’s big and angry and grim and funny and all of the things you want out of a great podcast. Best of all: it’s a true story. Let’s go…
When I first listened to the two-part podcast The Takedown, I couldn’t believe it. You mean to tell me there was an MMA fighter considered among the most vicious to ever step foot in a ring, and he’s in prison for robbing a bank?
Pull the other one son. This is a stitch up.
That’s what Matthew Nelson thought too. Over a beer in a bar with a mate is where he first heard the story of British UFC and MMA fighter Lee Murray. He didn’t believe it either, and then he started researching, and interviewing, then putting it all into a podcast, and that story turned out even better than he imagined.
Nelson’s day job is as a producer on Mogul, another excellent podcast that I’ve really enjoyed lately. The new season is about the rise and fall of DJ Screw. Nelson put together The Takedown, a double episode yarn about Murray for the podcast Crime Show, in his spare time.
It’s an incredible story, so I tracked Nelson down to find out how he did it…
Interview: Matthew Nelson
(Edited for clarity)
Hi Matthew, thanks for talking to me. I’m a massive fan of your podcast. I’ve listened to it twice over and still think about it most days. I’d like to start by asking when you first heard about Lee Murray. Is it true it was over a beer in a bar?
Over the years I have been getting more interested in MMA. Like a lot of people, I got drawn in by Conor McGregor but then I started to discover all of these other incredible fighters with their own rich narratives. But yes, I absolutely did first hear about Lee Murray at a bar. I was watching UFC with my buddy Garret Crowe - a wonderful writer and podcaster himself - and he was like, ‘Hey, have you ever heard about this UFC fighter who robbed a bank?’ I was hooked straight away.
When did you decide this had to become a podcast? Did you spend all your spare time Googling the guy, pulling on threads? Were you surprised no one had done anything about it already?
There are a few great long-form articles that have been written about Lee (check out Jon Wertheim and Saun Assael's writing - both were interviewed for the podcast) so I started there. Quickly it became apparent that this was a story that was really rich and had a lot of dimensions. I then started to become inspired by the idea of paying homage to all of the classic heist movies, as well as dropping listeners inside the crazy world of the early UK MMA scene.
Tell me about your interview process. Did everyone you contact want to talk about Lee? Was it hard to track everyone down? And did you try and talk to Lee himself?
I found that a lot of the MMA fighters who knew Lee were keen to share stories about sparring with Lee and just the early MMA scene in general. That world, the fight game before guys like McGregor became superstars, is fascinating and it's incredible how much these guys sacrificed to train with the elite. When I started to venture into the orbit of those who were associated with the heist, sourcing became much trickier. Not all of the money from the robbery was recovered and a lot of people understandably don't want to talk to reporters about it. As for Lee, I did try to get to him and at one point I was told he was ready to issue a statement, but it never quite happened.
The podcast's sound design is so rich and immersive - almost like a movie. I've seen comparisons to the director Guy Ritchie. Was that on your mind when you started recording?
Absolutely. For me sound design isn't an afterthought or something you only consider in the closing stages of a project, it's present from the very beginning. Just as all the best stories have a narrative perspective and point of view, I wanted the sound to have a similar presence in the story. Before I sat down to write the script I would often blast music from Guy Ritchie's soundtracks, just to get me in the mood. I also have to shout out Bobby Lord who wrote some phenomenal music for the show, and Daniel Ramirez who mixed it - and spent a lot of time studying how the sound design in Snatch worked.
Could you tell me what the reaction's been like since The Takedown aired? Are people asking you to turn it into a TV show or film? Have you had fans - like me - reach out? Do they want to hear more?
The reaction has been really great. It means a lot to me that people have listened and then felt compelled to tweet about what they just heard - and I recognize that I rarely do that myself. I'm always delighted when people have enjoyed my work and ultimately that's why I try so hard to make good work - to give the audience an hour or two of sheer escapism. No movie deal in the pipeline yet, but maybe my fellow Scotsman Ewan McGregor can play me? He's better looking, for sure, and would have to shave his head, but I think he could make it work.
As for people wanting to hear more of my work, this was my first time narrating a documentary for Gimlet. So I really hope people would like to hear more, because I'd love to make more.
Listen to Crime Show: The Takedown here.
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